OREANDA-NEWS. November 11, 2010. Vladimir Putin: Good afternoon, friends! As you know, we’ve arranged for this meeting to take place a day before the Government Presidium meeting in which we will approve a new federal targeted programme for education. The ministry has been working on it for a long time: it is a large document and we will discuss it today. However, before we discuss business, I would like to congratulate Mikhail Sluch, the headmaster of this school, and the entire school collective, both teachers and pupils. Why? Because when a leader makes progress in such a field, it is undoubtedly the success of the entire group, but of course the headmaster has a lot to do with it. Mr Sluch told us today during a brief tour of the school that he started his career here in 1992 when the school was in complete disarray. He put things in order here, so that the next school year could begin on the first of September. And he has been working here ever since – first as a teacher, and since 2005 he has been working as the headmaster. Is that correct?

Mikhail Sluch: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: And this year he has been named the Teacher of the Year.

I have just walked around the school and had a look. Of course, in terms of equipment and resources, it is an ordinary school, but the teaching here is far from ordinary. Mr Sluch, I want to say that I am impressed by how the learning process has been constructed here – with care and skill. I would also like to express my thanks to the jury, which has taken the selection process very seriously. You truly deserve the Crystal Pelican, which symbolises your devotion to your work, which is critical for the country and its future.

Congratulations, Mr Sluch. I am pleased to present you with the Pelican.

Now let’s turn to the business on today’s agenda. As I’ve said, tomorrow at the Government Presidium meeting, we will consider a new federal programme on education. It is comprehensive and affects all the areas of your line of work – education. As you know, steps have been taken lately to develop the education system as part of the national project Education. I think that a great deal has been done.

However, whenever there is a large-scale project, there are typically more problems that we haven’t solved than ones that we have. This is to be expected. It is a natural part of the process. In higher education, we are counting on the strong, and I believe that it is the proper approach. We are setting up a network of national federal universities and research universities, and will earmark additional funding for them.

For secondary schools, we have adopted a system of grants and we’re supporting schools that introduce innovative teaching methods. Your school has been awarded a grant of one million roubles, if I remember correctly.

Remark: In 2007.

Vladimir Putin: This will help you purchase some additional equipment for the school and develop some new teaching programmes. Honestly, it was a real pleasure to see how the learning process is organised at your school. It is inspired. Brilliant is the only word to describe it. Simply brilliant! Even I found it interesting, and the children obviously do, too. I can see how engaged the children are. You make learning a game – a useful and interesting game. These kinds of teaching methods, these techniques must be supported.

Joining our conversation today is the trade union chair. I hope that you, Ms Merkulova (turning to Galina Merkulova, chair of the union of educational and research workers), will also share your opinion on the current situation and the plans that we have already formulated, which are to be implemented under various programmes. I have mentioned the federal targeted programme. This federal programme provides over 130 billion roubles in funding – 157 billion, I think, 53 billion of which will come from the federal budget. And 10.5 billion roubles are earmarked for secondary schools.

Naturally, we can’t forget about social issues, such as teacher pay, particularly per capita financing, which we’ve been talking about a lot in recent years. Whenever and wherever this system is introduced, it results in higher pay for teachers. Still, I know that unions have their own perspective on this matter, so I have invited you, Ms Merkulova, so that I can hear your position. However, in Omsk, Pskov and Kaliningrad we are seeing salaries go up by about 25%, and in some cases by 40%.

Moscow has not taken part in these experiments yet, but Mr Sobyanin (Sergei Sobyanin, mayor of Moscow) did this when he was governor of the Tyumen Region. How much did teachers’ salaries go up then, Mr Sobyanin?

Sergey Sobyanin: 50%.

Vladimir Putin: There you go! Teachers’ salaries went up 50%. By transitioning to new methods of financial management, it becomes possible not only to independently dispose of financial resources and use them to raise salaries, but also to take decisions as to how much money should be allocated and for what in order to develop the educational system. So I repeat: we must discuss all of this carefully before the final decision is taken. And this is all that I want to say for now. I would like to give the floor to Mr Sluch, as the headmaster of the school we are in now, and then I would like us to have a broader discussion on all the problems that I’ve mentioned.

I just want to add that a new draft law on education is being prepared in addition to the targeted programme, which we plan to approve at the next Government Presidium meeting. The draft law must also be discussed in an open and transparent manner. And, in general, the article and the amendments to the legislation, which we are preparing now, include a clause stipulating maximum transparency in the education process, exactly what you have done here, Mr Sluch. I’ve seen how you post an individual student’s academic progress on the Internet, and how this reveals how the student is doing and what is being done at the family level, as well as how well the teacher is performing. It seems to me that this experience is very helpful. We are planning to incorporate what you are doing here into the law.  Let’s begin the discussion.

Mr Sluch, you have the floor.

Mikhail Sluch: Thank you, Mr Putin. One aspect of this is very important, in my opinion. You noticed it and mentioned it when were taking the tour around the school and talking to the pupils. It is very important that this school be open. This is a significant resource for us. To my mind, it’s not a coincidence that this is not a meeting for teachers only or for trade unions, despite the presence of the distinguished trade union representatives. This joint discussion includes parents, too, because this system of joint government and public management is a crucial institution of our civil society, an important element of which is openness. I’m referring to information being open and schools being open to parents. School is not only an educational institution but also a cultural centre, where parents often gain as much as their children do. Parents might be interested in more than just supporting the school financially.  Schools have relatively few teachers. There are many more parents of pupils, and this is important…

Vladimir Putin: I believe that what Mr Sluch managed to achieve is great. He got parents involved in the learning process and the day-to-day life of the school. This is interesting and very useful. You managed to create a sort of large family…

Mikhail Sluch: Yes, we did in some respects, but you can never solve all the problems in a school, including problems related to occupational guidance. Behind every engaged pupil, you find a teacher, yes, but also a good parent who can contribute to the pupil’s education. And this does not necessarily have to be the pupil’s parent, so the circle of people with an interest in the pupil’s success is much wider. I believe that the format of government and public management and the governing board may provide a fresh perspective on issues that are currently under development, including those related to the federal target programme, and issues of per capita financing – how schools are receiving funding and how it is then distributed within schools. In addition to objective criteria for evaluating teachers’ work, it is very important to know what the customers think – to listen to what the parents have to say. Naturally, there are complex and very sensitive issues, often with an ethical dimension, for example, people’s likes and dislikes. But in general, it is important that the customers in the education system take an interest in the teachers’ work.

Another related issue that is being discussed now is the transition to the new compensation system in education. We all know that teachers in Moscow are currently paid decent wages, and Sergei Sobyanin can attest to this. But we have to bear in mind all available means of incentivising teachers, which you’ve already mentioned. If a teacher is committed to his job and does good work, we can call him a distinguished teacher and we create certain incentives for him. However, it is also useful to search for other more flexible mechanisms, including those involving parents.

Finally, another interesting project, in my opinion, is the so-called federal law No. 83 on budget-funded autonomous institutions. It will create development opportunities for schools, but there are naturally concerns and risks as to how this project will be implemented and what problems may arise.

Vladimir Putin: It is crucial that each person involved in our large education understands this – the decisions that will be taken and what they will lead to in practice.

Mikhail Sluch: The format of this meeting allows not only professionals and high-level administrators to speak about these problems. It also provides an opportunity for the parents to hear about them. I believe this is very important, and I’m grateful to you for agreeing to have this conversation and for your willingness to discuss these important issues.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you, Mr Sluch. I see you’ve made a good choice for chair of the parent organisation – a department head at Deutsche Bank … Mr Sluch is a very talented man.

Mikhail Sluch: Mr Tomlyanovich looks young…

Vladimir Putin: Yes, and he has a good position.

Mikhail Sluch: His oldest son is a graduate of this school, so he already has 12-years experience at this school as a parent.

Stepan Tomlyanovich: 13 years, actually

Mikhail Sluch: 13 even.

Stepan Tomlyanovich: Now my daughter is in the graduating class. I have been pursuing a career in business in parallel with my job as a parent. We are very happy to support this school and the creative learning process used here. We are very pleased that the enthusiasm of its teachers has found support at the government level. At any rate, the financial survival of our favourite teachers has ceased to be an urgent issue.

Now we can discuss much more meaningful and important questions – how to develop administration and self-administration in the school with a view toward the future. I hope all parents will agree with me that as parents and customers, to use Mr Sluch’s term, we see our goal in giving as much support as possible to the teachers. We must relieve them of organisational burdens and other functions outside of teaching, and allow them to focus on teaching as much as possible, on working with children.

In this context, the parents have traditionally played a major role in our school. We are trying to help teachers organise events, including some with the help of our school board, and in resolving organisational and financial issues where necessary.

I think that this is also very important for the parents, because all of us have different experience and different circumstances. Some parents are well-versed in business management, but not many. Therefore, it is also very important for us as parents to take a responsible attitude to our children’s academic progress. We shouldn’t think that we have sent them to school for 12 years and received educated adults in 12 years. This is an interactive process and we are trying to take part in it. As parents, we are trying to understand its specific features, what should be done, what the short-term requirements of funding salaries are, and what part of funds should be allocated for capital improvements and training for teachers.

I think there will be a lot of discussion about this today, because educating a good teacher is probably the best long-term investment you can make. This task is very time-consuming. Our legislation is moving in the right direction. It allows educational institutions to develop self-administration and become more flexible, because every school has its own circumstances and requirements. Our school is unusual and so our requirements are unusual, too.

As far as I understand, Law No. 83 also allows some differentiation in per capita financing depending on how a particular school justifies its requirements and the investment it needs. Naturally, to keep this process in harmony, it is important for us to receive support from government education agencies, because most of our parents are novice administrators and they don’t necessarily have the financial resources. So, for example, even if under the new model, parents will be able to deal with current issues using charitable contributions or payments for some additional educational services, they still won’t have the resources for large-scale projects, such as capital improvements. We believe parents and teachers must maintain an intensive interactive dialogue with the government as the customer in the process and the builder of the entire system.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you, Mr Tomlyanovich. If you don’t mind, I’d like to make a few comments on your speech. Mr Tomlyanovich covered several interesting and important issues. At the end of his speech, he described the state as the customer that buys academic results from children, but initially he agreed with Mr Sluch, who said that parents are the customers. I’d like to discuss this point.

Of course, every parent – every single one – wants the best for their child. But every parent has their own individual understanding of what the best is. Some parents want their children to become theologians, priests; others want them to become mathematicians, artists, or musicians. Only the state can bring all these disparate desires together and create a well-organised, efficient, modern education system that acts as a foundation from which each person can pursue the specialty he or she wants. So both the parents and the state are the customers. These ideas should be reflected in the programmes that we are discussing today, which will be approved by the government tomorrow and then approved as a separate law in the State Duma. This is the first point I want to make.

Now about financial support: transitioning to new systems of compensation, reforming budget organisations does not mean cutting state financial support. God forbid! There is nothing about this in the law. If someone is afraid that something isn’t formulated well in the law and therefore the meaning can be distorted, we can correct this. This is the goal of our meeting, in fact.

As Mr Tomlyanovich said we are ready to help, including financially. I believe that parents should be able to contribute financially, but their contribution should be limited, because, as you said, not all parents earn the same amount, and it is 100% the state’s responsibility to support and improve the education system.

I think parents should participate in extracurricular activities. For example, Mr Tomlyanovich said that parents go on camping trips with the children here. A camping trip planned and organised by parents, pupils and teachers should not receive any money from the budget, as this activity is not part of the learning process. So parents can chip in and organise a camping trip. This is perfectly natural. There can be other extracurricular activities. However, parents should not be contributing money for the upkeep of school facilities, to buy new equipment, and so on. And, excuse me Mr Tomlyanovich, but I don’t think we should even create the option of voluntary contributions for these things. This creates a slippery slope, and what was once voluntary could turn into an obligation with time. This should not be in the law.

Stepan Tomlyanovich: Actually, I meant that parents, teachers and headmasters should make proposals about how to improve education, but that these proposals must be financed…

Vladimir Putin: This is very dangerous. If we allow this to happen, if you ask parents to help, it could turn into a mess. You work in a bank, right? Mr Lysenko works in another company; you are both businessmen, and you probably have money… But there are people who are not involved in business. It’s great if Mr Radulescu can sell something he’s written, but what if he can’t? I’m serious! And there are public sector employees. Teachers also have children and low salaries. So this is not something that we should pursue. The state must pay for the entire education system, including upkeep, repair and new equipment.

I would also like to address another issue: Mr Tomlyanovich spoke about training for teachers. The 2011–2015 federal targeted programme we are now discussing calls for the establishment of training centres in large schools. A total of 100 training centres must be established throughout the country, and at least 80,000 teachers must receive training in them from 2011 to 2015.

Additional advanced training centres for secondary school teachers must also be established in large pedagogical institutes in each federal district. You can speak now, Mr Lysenko.

Eduard Lysenko: I’d like to add something to what Mr Tomlyanovich has just said about the school. We attend school board meetings and meet with headmasters and teachers from time to time to discuss problems with the school. We really are involved in school life, which is good.

Why have we, the parents, chosen this particular school for our children? A school is not just a place where your son or daughter studies. As my mother said, the most important thing is that your child becomes a good person. Deciding on a school is like trusting your child’s life to a doctor.

This school allows parents who want to bring up their children properly to get involved in school activities. And I’m not referring to official events only. This relationship is much more personal. We participate in many different events together, make repairs and do everything else we are able to do for the school.

I’d like to hear your comments on autonomous educational institutions so as to understand their concept better. I wonder how the responsibilities of parents and the founding organisation will change, who has initiated this project, what new features this model has, and what the risks for businesses and society are. People receive all kinds of information about it all: some prefer online news, some rely on ads from mailing services, some are sceptical, and some don’t care at all.

Today we have a unique chance to hear the opinions of the prime minister, the education minister and the mayor of Moscow, who has carried out a similar experiment in the Tyumen Region. I come from Yaroslavl and I know how difficult the situation is in the regions, so for me…

Vladimir Putin: Good. Let’s start with the person who has already carried out a project like this in one region. His experience is particularly valuable and his opinion on this issue is especially important now that he has become the new head of a major Russian region, the city of Moscow. He can share the experience he gained while implementing the project in the Tyumen Region as the governor and tell us in detail what the effects have been. We have discussed the concept behind the new type of educational institutions more than once. Mr Sobyanin has introduced it in his region and such institutions have proved to be quite stable. Mr Sobyanin, please.

Sergei Sobyanin: Thank you. I’d like to focus on several issues.

Vladimir Putin: As a matter of fact, they created an autonomous institution and introduced per capita financing.

Sergei Sobyanin: The concept of new budget-funded educational institutions calls for the government to place orders with them. I understand that the idea of an order placed with a school might appear strange to many. But it’s the simplest mechanism we can go with. In fact, schools are already carrying out these orders. The government essentially pays for these orders through the funding mechanisms currently used across the country, including in Moscow.

For example, a school receives 60,000 or 70,000 roubles per student. Let's say it's 63,000 roubles. The headmaster receives the money and organises work at the school. That’s the concept of a state order with regard to schools. The system already functions this way.

Schools can also draw upon private funds, but this amount is insignificant, about 250,000 roubles on average. Some schools attract more funds but still these sums are meagre compared with budget funding, 26 million roubles. Private investments are deposited in centralised accounts, redistributed there and then provided to schools, as required by budget legislation.

Vladimir Putin: But schools almost never receive this money in fact.

Sergei Sobyanin: This money is returned to the schools a year after it’s been taken away. But nobody wants their money to be taken away and divided up. People want their money to go toward what they invest it into. Otherwise they say that the state should fund schools on its own.